Speaker McCarthy is OUT, and Andrew and Jerry have a deep discussion as to why. Is there really chaos in Congress--and if there is, is there anything new about it?  What kind of Speaker was McCarthy?  What did he accomplish, if anything?  What did Matt Gaetz and the 7 Republicans who joined him accomplish, if anything?  They discuss the hypocrisies in all this, and whether chaos is an essential element of Democracy.  What does this all mean for electoral politics down the road (and did this have anything to do with the averting of the shut down that led to McCarthy's ouster?)?  A member of Congress pulls a fire alarm as the negotiations to avoid a shut down were going on... what should happen to him (if anything)?  And we had another Presidential debate last week - Andrew and Jerry share their thoughts over last week's debate, and the value of these mass debates overall.